A common complaint of the Australian parliamentary game is that it’s merely a case of Tweedledum versus Tweedledee, a contest between two parties who largely resemble one another in both policies and methods. Certainly, this has been the case for federal politics in recent years – Rudd was at pains to present himself as a ‘fiscal conservative’, and emphasise his religiousity and populism (see his comments re: the Bill Henderson sage, for instance). On the other side, Brendan Nelson and Malcom Turnbull were ‘moderates’, who both were supposed to represent ‘generational change’. To this game, the Coalition has now said basta, electing Tony Abbott as leader. He in turn has elected a shadow cabinet comprised of rightist demagogues and old discards from the Howard era. The dust is yet to settle on this one, but I think there are a few things to be considered.
The focus at the moment, is on Copenhagen, climate change, and Rudd’s proposed ETS. It is by opposing this piece of legislation, and being a climate ‘sceptic’ more generally, that Abbott has come to be leader. Yet behind (and underpinning) the struggle for ‘action’ on climate change is the familiar spectre of another, older struggle, that of antagonism between rich and poor, bosses and workers. When we contemplate what an Abbottian future might look like, we ought not merely to think about climate change, but about the latter’s radical zeal for class struggle, as enthusiastic as that of the most ardent leftist revolutionary.
If we are honest, most of us would accept that a bad boss is a little like a bad father or a bad husband. Notwithstanding all of his faults you find he tends to do more good than harm. He might be a bad boss but at least he’s employing someone.
This was Abbott’s message as ‘Workplace Relations’ minister under Howard, in 2002, where he also quipped that a “bad boss” does “more good than harm”. This ought to tell you everything you need to know about where Abbott stands on ‘workplace relations’ (and, for that matter, marriage and parenthood). Abuse, authoritarianism, exploitation, and so forth – we can suspend our judgement on these things insofar as they are called to service for a ‘greater good’ – employment, parenthood, and so forth.
Naturally, Abbott now, as leader, accompanies his prattling about ‘battlers’ with a pledge to overturn the ALP’s ‘re-regulation’ of IR. This is despite the fact the past two years have seen wages drop proportionally in relation to corporate profits. Abbott is, relatively speaking, a straight-talker among politicians. Unlike Howard, he does not intend to cloak his intentions with simpering talk of workplace ‘flexibility’, or the need to martial ‘wage restraint’ vis-à-vis inflation. Abbott will make himself perfectly clear – profits must be increased, workers’ pay and conditions must be diminished, and the unions (the ALP’s bases) must be crushed. In concrete terms, this means yet another overhaul of IR laws, with the level playing field to be tilted dramatically toward business (particularly in terms of unfair dismissal).
A recent poll suggested that, ALP protestations notwithstanding, many Australians do not regard Abbott as an ‘extremist’. This is entirely correct. There is nothing whatsoever extreme about Abbott – he is the logical culmination of Howard-era Coalition policy, except that what Howard had to dress up with euphemisms, Abbott parades nakedly and without shame. He intends to go back to the future – the future that would have existed had not climate change and a GFC hindered the neoliberal political and economic agenda.
For this reason, leftists who attack Abbott on the grounds of his being a supposed ‘conservative Catholic’ are misguided, to say the least. To be sure, Abbott is happy to bait women (see his actions regarding the ‘abortion pill’), and those in favour of legal abortions. Nonetheless, his politics are decidedly neoliberal rather than truly conservative. Cuts to welfare and attacks against unions are not inherently conservative positions. The same goes for Abbott’s take on Catholicism. He may be pals with Pell, but his version of the faith is at odds with the many Catholic orders and other Christian denominations that stridently criticized Workchoices, Iraq, and other fiascoes of the Howard era. Focusing on Abbott’s religious views risks obscuring his much more dangerous political ones, and also risks alienating the many ‘conservatives’ and Catholics out there who do not subscribe to Abbott’s theology of paternalism and exploitation. The abortion debate is more or less settled in this country, and it suits the Coalition only too well for their detractors to be bogged down in this sort of a sideshow.
Neither should observers be fooled into thinking Abbott is some kind of ‘mad extremist’, a kind of Tory answer to Mark Latham. Mark Latham may well have been mad. He certainly lacked Abbott’s survival skills. But he was never an ‘extremist’, or even, very clearly, a leftist. In contrast to Abbott, who has reaffirmed his support, time and again, for the worst excesses of the Howard era, Latham showed in his speeches and his writings that he was an anti-Labor Labor leader, a kind of Blairite peddler or ‘third-way’ politics. The Coalition are staking everything on a clear Howardist platform, not some attempt at party compromise. Australia is at a stage in its history where, to all appearances, it would be utterly unwilling to re-embarked on a Howard-on-steroids misadventure. As far as Tony Abbott is concerned, history needs a push.
The mythical “doctor’s wives” and “small ‘l’ liberals” who were supposed to rescue Australia from Howard (and never did) do not exist as any kind of serious electoral or political force, and will almost certainly continue to vote Liberal, albeit with pegs on their noses. We saw this recently in Higgins and Bradfield, and we saw it very clearly in the 2007 federal election. The doctor’s wives returned Turnbull with an increased margin; it was salaried workers in relatively low-income areas that tipped out the Howard government, not a fairy-tale army of principled libertarians.
The fight against Abbott and his cronies is therefore very real, and it is also one orientated quite clearly around class struggle (as was the 2007 election, insofar as this was a contest about Workchoices and IR). There are no indications that Abbott shies away from this interpretation of things, suggesting that he and his backers either believe that the Australian public has suddenly warmed to a ‘deregulatory’ industrial and environmental agenda, or he is simply possessed of utter stupidity and hubris.
Of course, the coming political battle is not solely reducible to class. This is evident when one peruses the flotsam on Abbott’s front bench. Ruddock, that hollow man who should serve as a living (or undead) warning to all “small ‘l’ liberals”, was given a position, no doubt for his work against asylum seekers. The race-baiting and serially incompetent Kevin Andrews was given a senior position, and the detestable, walking caricature of the Liberals, Bronwyn Bishop, was recalled to the shadow cabinet for the seniors’ portfolio. Barnaby Joyce, as proficient on economic matters as a bucket of pigshit, was given the finance portfolio, pairing him with ‘avuncular’ Joe Hockey. Clearly, it would seem, Abbott prefers a ‘type’.
Abbott may be a Rhodes scholar, and no doubt, he is, in some respects, an able man, but he’s already managed to deal himself out of the game when it comes to climate change. A carbon tax was the perfect, market-based rejoinder to Rudd’s complex and useless ETS. There were strong arguments in favour of a carbon tax from a Coalition point of view. (The intra-right debate on this topic was quite interesting, from my observations). Instead, Abbott has positioned himself as opposing a ‘great big tax’. Without the government imposing ‘price signals’ with respect to carbon emissions, there is no market-based solution to be had. You are then left with a Federal Coalition government that will either do nothing, more or less, or one that will attempt to tinker about the margins with command and control solutions. Again, none of this is particularly ‘conservative’.
All this may look rather grim to those of us who don’t vote Tory. There is, however, a silver lining or two. The working classes have often been persuaded to vote against their own economic interests in the past, but the Tories couldn’t pull of this trick in 2007, and it’s even harder to see them doing it in 2010, post-GFC. We should thank Abbott and the Liberals for shedding their disguised, and revealing themselves to the public as they really are (and always were!). That is to say, they are neither ‘liberal’ (except in an economic sense) nor a party. Finally, there are few people better than Abbott at unifying the enemies of the Coalition. Under Abbott, the Coalition will wage Republican-style ‘culture’ wars, which themselves mask a rather nasty economic war. In this, Abbott has every chance of inadvertently fomenting a counter-coalition, comprised of workers, immigrants, homosexual couples, and the many other who would be the targets of Coalition policy. It is as if, politically speaking, Mao’s famous blessing has come true in Australia, and we are finally beginning to live in ‘interesting times’.

team@groupthink.com.au

#1 by Paul on 10 December 2009 - 11:28 am
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Interesting piece David.
Perhaps another factor which may hinder a Howard-era revival is incumbency, or more specifically, a lack thereof.
#2 by Ross Sharp on 10 December 2009 - 2:32 pm
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I worked for a bad boss 9 years ago. I don’t think my nervous breakdown as a result of the toxic workplace hell this man was lord and master of did me any good at all, but perhaps Tony Abbott would say it was “character-forming”.
Thanks for your analysis, David.
#3 by stace on 11 December 2009 - 2:21 pm
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Interesting piece, David.
Rattling around in my head lately, I’ve been thinking that conservative liberals and commentators are schooling themselves in American style fright politics where crude attack politics and conspiracy theories energise their die-hard base, and demoralises enemies.
Since the conservatives, both here and in the US found themselves asleep at the wheel, and were turfed aside, rather than ameliorating their standpoints, they’ve chosen to come back by showing more teeth than ever. It’s a fierce combative show of force that, quite frankly, scares the bejesus out of me.
Are they circulating some sort of underground – or official – How To manual?
#4 by Rx on 11 December 2009 - 2:40 pm
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Thoughtful piece. Thanks.
My view is that the Left must mobilise NOW to counter this dangerous movement. Call in all those who stand to suffer or be victimised at the hands of the Coalition extremists, get them in a unified effort, and resist!
#5 by David F on 11 December 2009 - 2:44 pm
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I think ‘the base’ of both the Libs and the GOP have been very quick to turn on politicians they see as fake conservatives – hence John McCain was rubbished as a ‘RINO’ (Republican in Name Only) whilst Palin was cheered. It was a similar story here, albeit, to a lesser extent – Nelson, and particularly Republic-supporting, Eastern suburbs, one-time potential ALP candidate Turnbull, were viewed as sell-outs and phonies by the base. I can’t think of any recent examples of the ALP doing the same thing, but that’s partly because the ALP straightjacketed the leftwing of the party some time ago. The Coalition possibly ought to have done the same to their rightwing.
Another point that I thought important, but forgot to add, was the role of business in all this. Abbott has clearly made it a priority to send business a message, by making IR ‘reform’ the first order of business, after the ETS. However, this tactic may not work. Sections of the business community here already believe in AGW. A coal industry stooge was on tv the other night saying the industry accepts the science. In the US, elements of Wall St are very chummy with the Obama administration. So whilst the Tories need business, as always, the need is not reciprocated so much anymore.
#6 by reb on 11 December 2009 - 3:08 pm
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That’s an excellent piece David, thank you.
I’m still bewildered as to what on earth makes the Liberal party think that they are “on to a winner” with Tony Abbott at the helm.
If Turnbull was “an experiment” what does that make Tony Abbott?
#7 by Leon Bertrand on 11 December 2009 - 10:15 pm
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A class based interpretation does seem to be a bit of a hard left take on this.
It might be worth noting that real wages increased much more under the ‘deregulated’ labour markets under the Howard years than they did during the far more interventionist system during the 1980s.
#8 by David F on 12 December 2009 - 11:09 am
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A class based interpretation does seem to be a bit of a hard left take on this.
It might be worth noting that real wages increased much more under the ‘deregulated’ labour markets under the Howard years than they did during the far more interventionist system during the 1980s.
‘Deregulation’ in the sense that right-libertarians mean it is dead and buried. Howard did not preside over any such deregulation. Rather, Workchoices was a massive re-regulation in favour of the managerial and business-owning class, and against their workers. Hence, he was engaged in naked and unambiguous class warfare, and any other interpretation is mere spin.
Your claims about ‘real wages’ have been put forward rather coyly here. If memory serves, the ‘real’ wage increases were actually prior to Workchoices’ implementation. The reports on Workchoices found that, by and large, workers faced cuts in pay and conditions after being put on a ‘flexible’ AWA (without the no-disdvantage test). Howard and the Liberals never denied this – Howard explicilty argued that ‘wage restraint’ (i.e. cutting pay and conditions) was necessary for workers in order to combat inflation (this latter being the holy grail of monetarist economists and other cranks). Howard never said that similar wage or profit restraint was necessary for the managerial/owning classes.
If you want real deregulation, I suggest having a look at the ‘reforms’ of Hawke or Keating, with respect to the Accord, the introduction of AWAs, etc.
#9 by Leon Bertrand on 12 December 2009 - 2:19 pm
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David,
Firstly, I agree that Workchoices was not truly deregulatory. However, it was the last in a series of pro-market reforms which dated back to the Hawke era.
Like Kevin Rudd, you seem to be drawing a false distinction between the reforms of the Hawke and Keating Labor governments on the one hand, and the Howard Government on the other. But the only real difference is that Howard’s reforms went further.
Like the Howard industrial relations reforms, the Hawke and Keating reforms also increased workplace flexibility.
And it was the Howard government that first introduced AWAs in 1996. A Labor government perhaps could never make such agreements possible given how much they rely on trade unions to finance their election campaigns.
#10 by David F on 12 December 2009 - 5:34 pm
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I made an error above. You are correct – it was Howard who introduced AWAs, in 1996, not Keating as I had originally asserted.
As for the rest – your argument, to the extent that it exists at all – seems a mixture of confusion and mendacious statements.
Let’s take your claim that wages rose under Howard. Correlation is not causation. Which specific ‘reforms’ of the Howard government do you assert caused wages to rise? You surely can’t mean Workchoices, since this was demonstrated to have a detrimental impact on wages and conditions.
However, it was the last in a series of pro-market reforms which dated back to the Hawke era.
Howard was an economic buffoon. I dare say even Costello and some other Liberals would attest to this. Howard’s economic incompetence began with his hapless stint as Fraser’s treasurer, and continued throughout his tenure as PM, with middle-class welfare, and a structural deficit in the budget surplus. I challenge you to identify any reforms that Howard instigated that made a real difference to workers. Rather than insinuating (by way of correlation) that Howard helped increase workers’ wages, you might want to consider the rise and rise of China throughout the Howard era. China bought billions of resources, which in turn left the economy flush with cash. Howard and Costello were entirely dependent on this cash for their ‘economic management’, and when the cash dried up (i.e. through the GFC), the budget was left in surplus. Some reformer.
Like the Howard industrial relations reforms, the Hawke and Keating reforms also increased workplace flexibility.
Let’s be clear – the ‘flexibility’ you mention is entirely on the side of the employer. Workchoices was aimed at reducing pay and conditions, and crippling the unions. Workers already had plenty of ‘flexibility’ through common law contracts and the original AWAs from 1996. Furthermore, Workchoices as not ‘pro-market’. Genuine advocates of free markets don’t push for union-busting legislation, since unions are themselves part of the market. Workchoices was strictly pro-employer, not pro-market.
I agree with the general thesis that Howard continued in the same free market trajectory as his ALP predecessors. I also wouldn’t deny that Hawke and Keating perhaps paved the way for the blatant class warfare of Howard (and now Abbott). But let’s not revise away the shameful aspects of Howard’s legacy. He and his government were rejected for some very good reasons.
#11 by Leon Bertrand on 12 December 2009 - 8:10 pm
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We seem to have changed the discussion to how good John Howard was in terms of his grasp of and competence in economics. That’s perhaps a debate for another time.
I will however address one of your points:
“Let’s take your claim that wages rose under Howard. Correlation is not causation. Which specific ‘reforms’ of the Howard government do you assert caused wages to rise? You surely can’t mean Workchoices, since this was demonstrated to have a detrimental impact on wages and conditions.”
Every reform which strengthened the economy led to higher wages growth. My point concerning IR is that markets and not industrial tribunals are primarily responsible for wage increases. Robust labour markets produce higher wages as employers compete for the services of competent employees.
Hence why wages growth was still very strong after WorkChoices: http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2007/11/14/2090835.htm
And hence why it slowed down as the GFC impacted on Australia: http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/05/26/2581095.htm
Employees have more to fear from a bad economy than they do any workplace reforms by the conservative side of politics.
#12 by David F on 12 December 2009 - 10:58 pm
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Every reform which strengthened the economy led to higher wages growth
Yes, but which specific reform of Howard’s transformed the economy into one of higher wages (if we assume your claim is true, which involves me meeting you more than halfway here)? If you can’t identify the specific reforms, and explain how they promoted wage growth, you can’t make these claims with any seriousness.
My point concerning IR is that markets and not industrial tribunals are primarily responsible for wage increases.
To the extent that this is true, it was true before Workchoices. As noted above, a worker could move off the award system with a common law contract or AWA even before Workchoices. Also, Howard himself set up an ‘industrial tribunal’, given the Orwellian name of the ‘Fair Pay Commission’.
Robust labour markets produce higher wages as employers compete for the services of competent employees.
These are weasel words. Neither the Liberals nor Workchoices did anything to make labour markets more ‘robust’. They did a lot, however, to strip rights from workers and unions, and centralise industrial power in the hands of the Federal government.
Hence why wages growth was still very strong after WorkChoice
Wage growth occurred in spite of Workchoices, not because of it. We know that for the majority of workers who were put on post-WC contracts, pay and conditions were slashed. You may recall that this was one of the key reasons why the Coalition were ousted. They certainly weren’t ousted because workers across the country were celebrating the robustness of markets.
Employees have more to fear from a bad economy than they do any workplace reforms by the conservative side of politics.
Absolute bullshit. Australian workers can do two-fifths of three-eights of SFA about the global economy. With Workchoices, they also had their rights stripped at home. Their unions lost rights. Of course, Howard and Costello said that AWAs were merely voluntary, and of course, every worker and employer across the country knew that this was nonsense. (Note the many employers who interpreted Workchoices as giving employers carte blanche, and who exceeded their authority after the legislation was passed).
If you have an argument that Howard or Workchoices was the direct cause of wage growth, then please share it. There’s no point repeating mealy-mouthed platitudes about robust markets and the like. To repeat – Howard was an economic illiterate, who doled out baby bonuses and first-home owners grants, who pretended to have a magic wand to control interest rates, and who presided over a multi-billion dollar structural deficit in the Federal budget. Ironically, he ought to thank those pesky Asians he so dislikes, as it was their buying of Australian resources that fuelled wage growth, inflation, and all the other major economic phenomena of the past 15 years.
#13 by Dave Gaukroger on 12 December 2009 - 11:24 pm
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Horseshit. I work for a multinational company and due to the economic downturn every one of our employees in the US had a mandatory 5% pay cut, plus a further 10% one off cut in the last month of the March quarter. Thanks to our much stronger employee rights in Australia our wages were unaffected.
An unregulated labour market like the US is a wet-dream for many conservative politicians, but all it does is destroy the middle class. I’ll take our present system and the stability that it brings thanks.
#14 by David F on 12 December 2009 - 11:34 pm
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That’s another good point, Dave. Emploeys in Australia would surely have used the GFC as an excuse to cut wages had Workchoices still been around, rather than impose discipline on themselves. This in turn would have worsened the economy (through reduced aggregate demand).
There’s some evidence that the developed countries to have gotten through the GFC best actually have the strongest labour laws (such as Australia, France, and Germany, as compared to the US, Ireland and Spain).
#15 by GaryM on 13 December 2009 - 12:58 am
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Interesting times indeed. The very comments by people like Leon Bertrand are the stuff of legend, fudge the numbers, fiddle the statistics, confuse the time line.Just any bullshit troweled on thick enough with an air of sincerity, a winning formula.Abbott and his new bench of social mis-fits have it in spades.
Rudd will still have a fight on his hands, and he’d better get a bit more yob in him to match it with Abbott or he could to be made to look like a prize ‘Fop’ although, alongside Abbott’s new recruits he looks like’ Conan the Barbarian’ to be sure.
The conservatives have taken on this uber right wing bully boy shtick, because Rudd has stolen the ground they usually occupy.This for them is seen as the last throw of the dice to dump a Labor party that for the first time in history, has more stars than a planetarium.
So for mine and soon to be released, H.M.’s new opposition will be having an Osama Bin Laden on every refugee boat, an ETS will cost millions of jobs,Rudd will have been seen in a brothel in Copenhagen, Abbott will make duffel coats free for school kids for the impending ice age, and there will be weapons of mass destruction in the TLC’s offices in Melbourne.
If Abbott gets the job “God help us all” I am more afraid of this man than George Bush.
#16 by Leon Bertrand on 13 December 2009 - 9:14 am
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“Yes, but which specific reform of Howard’s transformed the economy into one of higher wages ”
Many of them did. There is no one reform which did this. To repeat: “Every reform which strengthened the economy led to higher wages growth”.
I don’t have to “explain” how this is so. A secondary school economics textbook can explain this better than I can.
“Australian workers can do two-fifths of three-eights of SFA about the global economy.”
Maybe not, but that dosen’t change the fact that they are affected by it, as you acknowledge in your subsequent para when you talk about Asia’s robust demand for resources.
Again, you seem to be foaming at the mouth wth your personal dislike of John Howard.
“I work for a multinational company and due to the economic downturn every one of our employees in the US had a mandatory 5% pay cut, plus a further 10% one off cut in the last month of the March quarter. Thanks to our much stronger employee rights in Australia our wages were unaffected”
You may well be quite wrong in assuming causation here. Australia was far less affected by the GFC, so the need to cut wages would have been far less. If Australia had been as badly affected as the US and IR laws prevented pay cuts, the likely result would have been far greater job losses. Not much “stability” there!
#17 by Dave Gaukroger on 13 December 2009 - 10:06 am
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Leon, the pay cuts were supposed to be company wide, the only thing that saved us, and some of our European co-workers, was our stronger labour laws.
The thing that many large organisations need to realise is that they can’t simply slash their staff budget every time that market conditions get tight. Sometimes a company just needs to take its medicine and accept lower profits for a quarter or two. Having been treated with such disdain, many of our people are looking to leave the organisation as soon as the economic climate improves, which will hurt us a lot worse than one bad quarter would have.
#18 by David F on 13 December 2009 - 11:25 am
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Leon, I’m not sure if it’s sheer confusion or outright dishonesty, but you’re yet to make a single substantive point. Are you arguing that Howard help raise wages through unspecified ‘reforms’ that you can’t identify? Are you suggesting that Workchoices was a boon to Australian workers, when all the evidence points to the contrary?
One of my points in this post is that Howard and Abbott have, through their policies, engaged in bare-knuckle class warfare. You appear to be trying to drown this point out in vagaries such as ‘pro-market reform’ and ‘robust’ labour conditions. Howard was an economic incompetent, and a nasty piece of work to boot – deal with it.
#19 by Jane on 13 December 2009 - 5:17 pm
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GaryM, I think Rudd and his team will be equal to the task of demolishing Abbott and his cohort of the undead. Rudd is a much tougher politician than a lot of people realise; he was forged in the furnace of the Queensland ALP, after all.
There are interesting times ahead, but I don’t think the Libs are going to enjoy them much.
#20 by GaryM on 13 December 2009 - 5:29 pm
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Jane, I hope you are right.Abbott and his team will make H
#21 by GaryM on 13 December 2009 - 6:02 pm
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Jane, I hope you are right.Abbott and his team if elected will make Howard look like a social worker.It worries me that some people are so dumb, they can’t see the evil in some of these bastards.I indeed despair, after all of the lies and deceit of the Howard years, people are so glued to their ideology they can’t see what the last government was about, and would be prepared to try the experiment again.
It is a delight indeed to read the paragraphs of bullshit dedicated to the so called economic success of the Howard government, when ‘Blind Freddie’ could see their raison detra was about screwing over the unemployed, sick, disabled, and any other social welfare recipients period.All their faux bullshit about the less fortunate in our society, should be subject matter to obtain a PhD in propaganda.
The Chinese economy is paying for every thing, and the former government sat back and’Let the good times roll’
But I give credit where it is due, Howard with his baby bonus, and other treats for his brain dead followers that live in the slums of every capital city in Australia, was indeed his finest hour.He was fully cognizant of the fact, all that loot he gave out was gonna end up in the pockets of his mates, and indeed that’s where it did end up,This all by way of consumer goods,if any of that cash went to-wards a child’s education or other welfare I will eat shit for a fortnight.
#22 by Rx on 14 December 2009 - 7:25 am
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An unregulated labour market didn’t save American workers during the GFC. Their unemployment is almost double Australia’s.
#23 by Leon Bertrand on 14 December 2009 - 2:06 pm
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David F,
I am certainly not being dishonest. The reforms of the Howard government are a matter of record. How they improved the economy and increased wages can be discerned by reading from a basic economics textbook.
#24 by David F on 14 December 2009 - 2:44 pm
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No need to be defensive, Leon. You simply haven’t made your case.
You’ve said: Wages rose because of Howard’s reforms.
I asked: Which reforms caused wages to rise?
You responded: Er, all of them.
Such answers belong in comedy.
#25 by Leon Bertrand on 15 December 2009 - 10:35 am
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In that case, most economists must be comedians.
#26 by David F on 15 December 2009 - 12:03 pm
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No Leon. ‘Most economists’ try to support their positions with arguments and evidence. You’ve repeatedly made the sweeping claim that Howardian ‘reform’ caused wages to increase. You’ve been repeatedly asked for evidence of this.
Rather than provide any, you’ve instead stuttered and stammered like a nun in a brothel, and said it was Mabo, ‘the vibe’, etcetera.
Come back when you have an argument.
#27 by Leon Bertrand on 18 December 2009 - 4:31 pm
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David,
If you don’t understand how a strong economy results in higher wages, then I’m afraid you should do some research rather than saying silly things such as “Come back when you have an argument.”.
#28 by David F on 20 December 2009 - 11:41 pm
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Oh, Leon. Let’s be honest, shall we? We weren’t discussing banal and idiotic platitudes about ’strong economies’ bringing higher wages. We were debating (at your instigation, I should add) the specific ‘reforms’ of the Howard era, which you claim resulted in a variety of benefits for Australian workers. I’ve debated you in the best of faith, and given you repeated opportunities to explain precisely how these ‘reforms’ lead to wage growth in concrete terms. You have repeatedly sidestepped this question.
Instead, you’ve treated us all to a prolonged and embarrassing ‘argument’ whereby you’ve asserted that unknown economists have argued in non-existent textbooks that a range of non-specific reforms on Howard’s part led to a series of inscrutable benefits to unidentified workers. In other words, you’ve sail into a Bermuda Triangle of stoopid. I’ll say it again – come back with an argument. In the meantime, if it pleases your childish caprice, you may yet again attempt to have the last word.
#29 by Leon Bertrand on 21 December 2009 - 5:40 pm
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David,
If you care to read a basic economics textbook – any textbook, you would realise that there is a point in my not explaining the basics of economics to you.